Common False Teachings which I Embraced

Here I simply list false teachings which I embraced for many years until I recognized and rejected them. In upcoming posts I expect in the will of the Lord to address each of the following in detail because every one of these doctrines which I embraced divided me from other brothers and sisters to which God had united me in Christ and who simply believed what the Bible stated about these things!

Baptism Fables which I embraced:

“Baptismal Membership”: the teaching that water baptism is required to be a member of a local church. Problems with this teaching include the fact that scripture never mentions membership in connection with a local church nor does scripture ever teach that water baptism is required to be a member of the church which is Christ’s Body! My teaching of baptismal membership only served to exercise control over a congregation and divided us from other believers to which God had united us (baptized or not!)

 “Baptismal Adding”: This teaching is similar to the above. I held this teaching after I rejected the idea of “local church membership. I held it because I believed that men were responsible to add believers to a local church and we would not attempt such an action until one had been baptized following their own confession of faith in Christ. But such a teaching, itself, is foreign to scripture, seeks to exercise religious control over God’s people and creates and maintains divisions among God’s people whom He has united.

 Church Fables which I embraced:

“Clergy Laity Distinctions”: I firmly believed that there were clear distinctions between two classes of believers…otherwise known as “clergy” and “laity”, those who were “ministers” and those who were “not in the ministry”, those who worked in “spiritual work” and those who worked in “secular work”, those who were in “full-time Christian work” and those who were in “part-time Christian work”, those who were “servants of the Lord” and those who were “servants of men”!  Traditions of men assigned to the first class distinctive titles, certificates, papers or letters, distinct responsibilities and privileges, distinct places of ministry, distinct means of support, and in some places even distinct clothing! But I eventually learned that scripture never distinguishes between clergy (God’s inheritance) and the laity (God’s people)! Not one of the above distinctions can be scripturally defended!  In both Old and New Testaments the clergy and laity are designations of the very same group of people! It is true that under the Old Covenant God ordained that men of the tribe of Levi were the only ones who could be priests and ministers, but under the New Covenant every believer is a priest, an ordained and gifted minister and no class of believers has ever been called to “part time ministry”!  This doctrine creates all sorts of divisions among God’s people! Thus I had to repent of this doctrine and practice and refrain from any further participation in it.

 “Local Church Membership”: For many years I was proud to be a member of my church. But that membership distinguished me from other Christians who were not members of my church! But as I searched the scriptures on the subject I learned that membership in scripture is always associated with a body which has a head. No local church is ever described in this way nor does scripture ever speak of “’members” in a church at Jerusalem, Ephesus or Corinth. The only scriptural church which has members is the church which is Christ’s Body of which all believers are members! The whole concept of membership in local churches thus creates many unscriptural divisions among the people of God who are one in Christ!  So I had to repent of this doctrine as well and abstain from seeking “membership” in any gathering of Christians which would exclude any who belong to Christ.

“In Fellowship/out of Fellowship”: For many years I distinguished between those of us in my church who were “in fellowship” and others whom we believed were “out of fellowship”. But then I learned that neither of these terms are scriptural ones! Fellowship is not something you can be “in” or “out of” but rather something which you have or do not have. It  is not something that others can extend to you, withhold from you or “put you out of”!  The doctrine of “in fellowship” and “out of fellowship” has been created to justify and create countless divisions among those whom God has united by His Spirit!

“Church collections” and “Church tithing”: For decades I faithfully contributed every Sunday to collections which were made in churches where I was a “member” or “in fellowship”.  I felt that this was an obligation which every faithful Christian would accept. But the greatest percentage of those collections was spent on maintenance of church buildings and paying church staff or those in “full-time ministry”. No collection is ever recorded in a church gathering in the new testament! Nor did any first century churches  receive collections for the purpose of paying for “church buildings” or paying “salaries of church staff”!  The collection of I Cor.16:1,2 was to be laid by in store by each believer to be used for poor saints! The teaching of “church collections” and “church tithing” are really all about human control of the financial resources of God’s people when in reality each believer needs to be listening to Christ their Head regarding how He would have their collections disbursed! So this is another teaching and practice of which I had to repent in order to be obedient to the scriptures.

 “Church Leadership”: For most of my life I looked up to and followed “church leaders”, then I trained to be a “church leader”,  I became a “church leader” and began training others to also be “church leaders”!  I never questioned the whole concept of “church leadership” until I began to test all of my beliefs and practices by scripture. It has only been recently that I realized (to my surprise)  that God never intended that any man other than the Lord Jesus Christ should be a leader of His people!  The Lord Jesus did not train leaders, did not assign the task of  “leading” to any of His followers nor did He appoint apostles, elders, deacons, pastors etc to “lead “ the church! Rather the Lord Jesus called and trained followers who would also train others to follow the only leader whom God has ever appointed over them and that is Christ. Thus I learned that all of the many practices that I associated with the idea of mortal church leadership only served to divide Christians, cause us to follow a multitude of leaders and distract our attention from the only True Leader which God has given us, His own lovely Son!  So I have had to repent of my participation in, the poor example I set and the teaching I gave to others regarding being “church leaders”. Now I simply desire to encourage all believers to be eager followers of Christ rather than following any mortal leaders.

  End- times Fables which I embraced:  I was taught many end-times doctrines by my pastor, grandfather and many other Bible teachers. But I embraced and taught many of them to others without ever having seriously searched the scriptures to see whether these things were so! But as I tested my own teachings by the marks outlined on this blog for distinguishing false teachings from sound doctrines all of the following were exposed as false teachings and I had to repent of and reject each one:

-The teaching that Daniel’s 70 weeks are actually “sevens of years”,

– The teaching that Daniel’s 70th week is the “seven year tribulation”,

– The teaching that Christ’s return from heaven is an imminent event, i.e. that no prophecy of

   scripture must be fulfilled before He returns,

– The teaching that the rapture or catching up of the saints will happen before the tribulation,

– The teaching that following the rapture/catching up of the saints they and the Lord Jesus ascend to

    heaven, and

– The teaching that the Day of the Lord lasts over a thousand years.

 

Heaven Fables which I embraced: For most of my life I believed two very commonly accepted teachings about heaven…

 –The first was the teaching from John 14 that Jesus was going to heaven, preparing mansions in heaven, coming back from heaven  and would take us to heaven.  But that teaching was challenged in my own thin king at a Bible Conference where a brother from England made a simple statement about the Lord Jesus’ “going away” in John 14…. He said, “The Lord Jesus was going to the cross!”  As I searched John 14 with that thought in mind I was amazed to discover that “heaven” was not even mentioned but the Lord Jesus clearly said that where He was as He spoke to his disciples was “in the Father”!  He did not promise in John 14:6 that he was the way “to heaven” but rather the way to the Father!  So the doctrine stated above was another teaching which I had to repent of and reject for it not only contradicted what the Lords Jesus plainly said, but it created division and deception among the people of God.

– The second was the teaching that Christians Go to Heaven when they die & when the Lord comes again. But only when I began testing my own beliefs by the simple tests of scripture did I realize that this teaching was also false!  Without exception, every man mentioned in the Bible who went to heaven went there while his physical body was alive and well! Not one is ever recorded going to heaven when they died! Nor does scripture ever teach that people will go to heaven when the Lord Jesus returns from heaven! Rather scripture clearly teaches that all His saints will come with him to earth when He come from heaven! So you can see that this was yet another false doctrine of which I had to repent.

 Salvation Fables which I embraced: Two very commonly embraced doctrines which are considered by many to be foundational truths of the Christian faith are actually false doctrines…

-Justification by faith alone: This is one example of a true doctrine (Justification by faith, Romans 3:28; 5:1; Galatians 3:11etc ) being made into a false doctrine, by the addition of just one word “alone”, and  thus made to contradict many other truths of scripture such as justification by Christ, justification by blood, justification by grace and justification by works but NOT by works of the law!   In order to embrace all the scriptural truths regarding justification, I had to reject the doctrine of “justification by faith alone”!

– Substitutionary Atonement, or the teaching that the Lord Jesus became a substitute for sinners for whom He died…. This is a false assumption from such passages as Romans 5:6,8 and I Peter 3:18 which clearly teach that  He died for the ungodly, for sinners and for the unjust.  But neither these texts nor any others suggest that Christ was our substitute, i.e. that He came to do something for us which we could normally have done for ourselves! He came to do something for us which we could never have done! Such a work is NOT that of “substitution”!   When one is a teacher and is sick for a day- another teacher may teach for them and thus be their substitute.  But when one is seriously injured in a highway accident and needs to be flown hundreds of miles to a hospital, the man who flies a helicopter to pick them up is the pilot for them but he is NOT their substitute!  He comes to do something for them which they have never done and cannot do (i.e. fly a helicopter). Just as the helicopter pilot is not a substitute for the accident victim, neither was the Lord Jesus a substitute for the sinner!

A Satan Fable: -Satan is the “god of this world”. This is a false deduction from II Cor.4:4 a context in which Satan is never mentioned! This teaching ascribes to him exactly what he has always desired…attributes of deity  which belong to none other than the Creator of heaven and earth, (i.e. the right to be called God and the ability to blind minds.)  This teaching distracts believers from things which scripture teaches only God can do, ascribes attributes of God to the Enemy and contradicts the clear teachings of scripture!

It is always doctrines such as this which divide between brothers and sisters in Christ whom He has united as one in the church which is His Body!

 A Scripture Fable: I was taught and for many years believed and taught to others the following….The “sign gifts” such as apostles, prophets, prophecy, tongues, interpretation, healings, miracles, wisdom, knowledge, discerning of spirits etc all passed away when the scriptures were complete and have not been in operation among believers of the Body of Christ since that time. This false teaching is never stated in scripture but is deduced from I Cor.13:8-13 where it is falsely assumed that “that which is perfect” was the completion of the scriptures before the end of the first century A.D.  Scripture clearly teaches otherwise!  Therefore this is another false teaching of which I had to repent and reject even though many close friends disagree with me. This teaching divided me for far too long from saints who simply take God at His word and believe what the Bible says for itself.

Because not many years ago I, myself, embraced all of the fables mentioned above, I know how you will feel if you currently believe any of the above-mentioned doctrines and have just read my claim that such are actually false teachings. So I would ask you to do one of two things (for your own benefit and for mine):

 (1) Take the time necessary to list the marks which you believe are true of every false teaching.

 (2) Demonstrate that any one of the doctrines mentioned above is actually stated in words of

        scripture.

 In either case I will welcome and appreciate your scripturally based comments (below) or in a personal email to me at bwood4d@gmail.com.

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50 comments on “Common False Teachings which I Embraced

  1. Paul F says:

    Hi Bruce,

    I just wanted to encourage you in your endeavour, understanding what you are seeing.

    As much as Paul preached ‘Christ, and Christ crucified’, we preach something else. We teach a Pauline theology based on mans efforts to put God in a box.

    My hearts cry since 1998 was to understand the original message, free of the gunk we have affixed to it. He has shown me part of it, but I certainly don’t have it all.

    What really causes our division is religion, in other words we want people to follow our theology and not someone else’s. Baptists want us to be Baptists, Lutheran Lutheran, Full Gospel Full Gospel, etc, etc.

    All claim to have ‘sound doctrine’.

    What concerns me is the Brethren are silent. Either out of fear or arrogance the brethren simply seldom comment on posts. We as brethren need to search for and share our common grounds of understanding to enable us to become more united. It isn’t the Christian message of the cross that divides us, it is man’s interpretation and tradition that causes our division.

    It’s ok to be wrong. I thank God for the many times He has shown me to be incorrect and look forward to His further correction.

    God’s timeless and ultimate desire is for people to allow Him actual, intimate, and real, interaction with Him. We have substituted something else, in His place.

    It’s a scary journey, the undoing of ourselves, but well worth it.

    Be Blessed,
    Paul.

    Like

    • Hi Paul,
      Great to hear from you again! I think you really put your finger on the truth of the matter when you wrote, “What really causes our division is religion, in other words we want people to follow our theology and not someone else’s. Baptists want us to be Baptists, Lutheran Lutheran, Full Gospel Full Gospel, etc, etc.”

      I believe this is precisely the reason why NOBODY embracing such a background can define what marks are true of every sound doctrine or the opposite marks of false doctrine! Each denomination/school/religious camp has their own standard for deciding such things and each has rejected God’s standard in favor of their own.

      Yes, accepting His standard is necessarily our own “undoing”! I agree, it IS worth it!

      Like

  2. John says:

    Hi guys.

    I’ve always thought that the “lower case” god of this world was satan, … but only by the peoples direct or indirect choice. Never thougth of it as The Most High God blinding the minds of those that don’t believe. I’ll have to dig into that one.
    Thanks alot.

    Below is a link to David Eells e-books. I’ve read “Sovereign God” and found it to be exactly what Bruce is talking about.

    http://www.ubp1.org/

    I read a really good book called the Tithe that Binds.

    http://www.emeraldministries.com/Books/TheTitheThatBinds_RoryMoore.pdf

    Not to distract us from scripture alone, it just seems that sometimes we need Christ in his poeple to teach us and then other times we need not that any man teach us since Christ lives in us!

    This three link below are to David Eells, Chris White and Russ Dizdar. I usually listen to them regularly. Amazing how much time we have when we cancel the cable TV!

    I know I have to be careful not to start my own religion of studying, listening and learning by myself, since “hearing can get in the way of “doing” if we never actaully do something. We need ears to hear him and do as He says.

    Just something to book mark and look into if you feel led to. I download to the mps player and take to the Gym, road trips, cleaning kitchen. whatever.

    http://www.ubm1.org/?page=sabs-unedited

    http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/archives/#sthash.Y86mW2z1.dpbs

    http://preemptionbroadcast.podomatic.com/

    Have a good day bros in Christ.
    John

    Like

  3. John says:

    Hi again Bruce.

    satan being the father of lies, could have the given ability to blind or deceive the mind of man with lies… could he not?

    John 8:44
    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Many places the Scriptures use the word gods in the lower case form indicating inferiority to the only true God.

    http://biblez.com/search.php?q=gods

    1 Corinthians 8
    4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

    5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    Daniel 4:17

    This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

    At best satan lusts after The most High Gods position in Christ, but can never attain it himself, let alone lead anyone else to Him.

    Isaiah 14:14
    I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    I realize I am not showing you anything you don’t already know, just making sure I am clearly understanding you.

    Mathew 24;24
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    I stand in Christ, and confess, that Jesus is come in my flesh and have been given faith that It is not possible, as it is written, to deceive or blind His elect.

    Hope all is well Bruce,
    We had a baby girl, Grace, a year ago now. What a blessing. She is so gentle and beautiful. Anything you try to feed her, she sticks it up towards whoever is feeding her. So smiley!

    Thanks for doing what God is doing through you Bruce. It takes a willing vessel and he has obviously made you willing!

    Take Care,
    John, Adele, Jonah and Grace
    Kelowna, B.C.

    Like

    • Hi John,

      You asked whether Satan could have been given the ability to blind or deceive the minds of men.

      Scripture is clear that he is a liar and a deceiver, however scripture never teaches that he can blind anyone! There is a great difference!

      Great to hear from you again!

      Like

  4. Larry says:

    Hello Paul F.. I got from your letter a feeling that you are indeed a sincere seeker of the truth. It’s a breath of fresh air compared with some of the antagonistic and pointless things I’ve read.
    I have read some on the Calvinist/Armenian debate and also some on the early church fathers (Calvin Luther,Origen, the gnostics elc.) My conclusion is that the Calvinists and Armenians are both right and both wrong..which seems to be the way people stay confused. The truth I believe is somewhere in between..unfortunately few have or take the time to try and sort it out. It is so much easier to just let someone else tell us what it all means.
    Anyway, I’m getting away from what I wanted to say which is I am not familiar with brethren teaching except I think it started with the anabaptists. If this is wrong please correct me..And if you know of a good web site that explains their position please send it to me. I do NOT want this to find fault,. only to better understand that which I do not know much about.. I’m thinking we may have much in common but not from the anabaptist point of view.
    Grace and peace Larry

    Like

  5. Desmond says:

    “Brethren”, originally called “Plymouth brethren”, were started by John Nelson Darby, an Anglican preacher. They are credited with the rise of dispensationalism and premillenianism.

    “Brethren In Christ” are a different denomination and are a part of the anabaptist peace tradition.

    Like

  6. Larry says:

    Thanks Desmond, I really should have done some research before posting this.

    it is helpful to know there’s a difference between “plymouth” and “in Christ”

    Like

  7. Clyde says:

    Those pansy peace churches make me sick. Where do they think they’d be if we he didn’t have us willing to kill in the name of God for them?!
    They’d all be speaking german, that’s where!

    Like

    • John says:

      What I have realized is that none of us have everything we need. Only when we function as a “team” or as one body with the clear objective to understand the deepest things in life, do we make progress in understanding the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. We need to be like Bruce, willing to let go of preconceived conclusions, and to be corrected by the word of God and by the leading of the Holy Spirit since it is the Spirit that gives life and not the letter.

      Consider Jesus, on the cross. People that witnessed this were thinking different things about the event, except those that had been given understanding. Jesus said, “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”.

      As much as it may challenge our current world view, prayerfully guided research will reveal the truth about anything. I never cared about knowing anything more than where my next beer was coming from until I was lead to begin crying out to Jesus to give me a love and and understanding for truth.

      What a cool thing Bruce stated re: people that are at least willing to challenge others on their position. That is awesome. Hats off to those who have it in them to question all things. There is no other way to learn but to inquire.

      I pray not for the world but those the Father has given me. Of all these I have lost not one.

      And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
      Praise Jesus and God Bless you all.

      Like

    • Larry says:

      Clyde, Take a deep breath bro. I’m not familiar with the pansy peace churches your referring to, but I’ll say this as one not raised in a denominational church, but raised by God fearing parents. I’ve read scripture some and never came across anywhere that anyone ever told a soldier to give up his job or that he needed to find another line of work now that he was a Christian..
      I’ll put it this way: I believe we have God given responsibilities..among them is the responsibility to provide for and protect our families. And they have every right to expect that from us.. So if,,for example someone were to attack my daughter,I believe she has every right to expect me to do everything in my power to protect her. And so I would..
      Read this long ago but for some reason it’s stuck with me;;
      If my house catches fire do I go to the front lawn and pray for God to put it out OR do I try to put out myself, and failing that, call 911
      grace & peace to all who trust in Him Larry

      Like

      • Clyde says:

        Those peace churches believe that Jesus was some limp wristed, latte drinking, diaper wearing hippie, who was all about peace and love and have a flower. They think he wanted us to roll over and love our enemies when they don’t deserve it! I don’t think they fully realize that Jesus is coming back with a sword in his hand and vengeance for all the sinners or that we are his earthly agents for justice and righteousness!

        Like

      • John says:

        Hi Clyde. I agree with you re: some peoples false view of Jesus. This is written about many places in the scripture.

        Here is one example:

        1 John 4
        Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

        2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

        3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

        confesseth = ὁμολογεῖ (greek) = to speak the same, to agree

        What is being written here is not that anyone who thinks “Jesus was a real guy once upon a time” is of God. Most people believe that, but does that automatically make them “of God”?

        What it means, is that if we speak the same as, or agree with Jesus Christ, then we are of God, but if we speak any other doctrine, it is that of anti-christ, or as you put it… “limp wristed, latte drinking, diaper wearing hippie, who was all about peace and love and have a flower” ha ha… thats funny.

        Consider 2 Corinthians 11:

        3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

        4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

        and Galatians 1:

        8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

        Consider Mathew 7:

        22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        Re: our enemies consider Mathew 5:

        43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

        44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

        However if you are led to be a warrior consider what is revealed in Ephesians 6 re: our enemy and how to overcome!!!

        11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

        12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

        I’ll let you read the rest of Ephesians 6 re: the “Armour of God”.

        In Romans 12, it mentions the Lords vengeance.

        19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written,
        Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

        And re: the last part of your last communication, you are right!

        Check out Mathew 10:

        34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

        When I was 21 or 22, woke up one morning, hung over. Probably still drunk. Hated my life that I loved and could not stop,…if that makes sense. Picked up the Bible and never have put it down. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Seek the Most High God through Jesus Christ. Not any denomination or religion. There is no division in Christ. Jesus wants you and loves you.Take heed that no man deceive you, not even ourselves.

        Take care Clyde
        At your service,
        John

        Like

    • Clyde,
      I am curious about your comment above about “pansy peace churches”… What does it have to do with the page on which it appears “Common False Teachings which I embraced”? If you can tell me what previous statement on this page you were responding to, I’ll leave it here. Otherwise it will be deleted as another off-topic subject being introduced.
      Thanks, Bruce

      Like

      • Clyde says:

        Delete what you like, it’s your blog.
        Larry and Desmond were talking about the difference between brethren and brethren in christ.
        One of them is a peace church.
        Is that a common false teaching?

        Like

      • Thanks Clyde. That answers my question as to what your comment was connected to. See further comments on the subject to follow. Bruce

        Like

  8. Paul F says:

    Larry, I apologize, I wasn’t clear. My usage of the term Brethren is in it’s general sense meaning ‘brothers’ (and sisters, of course), not referring to the Denominations. My statement was referring to how often, to many good posts from Bruce and others, many of the brothers and sisters are silent, not commenting or willing to have discussion. Having said that, this particular topic is a welcome exception.

    As long as we have denominations, we will have division. The only place of unity is in the Spirit, and not in how we interpret the Spirit.

    Typically, we interpret the Spirit through the filter of our traditions and denominations and fears. So, as these things die from us, the truth of the Spirit itself becomes clearer.

    A good question for people to ponder is simple: what do you suppose Jesus is doing minute by minute each day?

    A second good question to ponder is, why do I believe what I believe?

    We like to throw around the term ‘truth’.

    The Greeks did not have a word for truth, but that is the word the interpreters used. Where Jesus said, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life’, what Jesus really said was the more accurate interpretation; ‘I am the way, the reality, and the life’. Reality is current, not past, is living, and is present.

    When we get our heads around that, and knowing Jesus is the Spirit, we begin the journey into unity.

    Denominations have led us into wars, out of wars, and on both sides of the issue of fighting in wars.
    All we really know is, God is involved in wars. God fearing believers have always fought on both sides of any conflict.
    Two points from WW2 – a good read is a book, if you can find a copy, ‘Reese Howell, Intercessor’
    and point 2, 98% of the Evangelical Christians in Austria voted for Hitler.
    Denominationalism affects our lives. Rightly, and wrongly.
    Jesus is beyond our denominations and the rigidity of our doctrines.

    If you’re a student of history, and have the time to search out the causes and understandings, of what brought the hearts of the people to a place of war in the US Civil War, you will find firstly the split of the Methodist Church followed by the split of the Baptist Church (Southern Convention) in the 1830’s.
    The preaching and teaching of ‘sound doctrine’ in the South was the support of slavery, and in the North, was ‘sound doctrine’ teaching of freedom for the slaves. The hammer comes down with the 2 sides declaring each other ‘false’, and even ‘not truly saved’.
    The result, was the willingness of brother to kill brother.

    The first 300 years of Christendom had unity, not because of ‘sound doctrine’, but because the ‘Brethren’ knew Jesus, as reality, in Spirit.

    That’s what Jesus was praying about in John 17: 22-26.

    Like

    • Larry says:

      Paul, Thank you for your excellent response..this is getting very interesting thanks to you and others.
      .Not much of a history buff, but did understand that Hitler convinced many that he was a christian and then made a deal with the Muslims to help him eradicate the Jews.
      the willingness of brother to kill brother.:: does not apply today physically; but it seems to me that too many calling themselves Christian do not hesitate to use character assassination or other means of killing people spiritually..

      The split in the churches (1830s) is a difficult thing for me to figure out ..I know they both used scripture to come to different conclusions…still one was right and one wrong.
      The only thing I can think is; the ones that were wrong, allowed the society around them to dictate.how they interpreted scripture
      And that is a large part of what I see going on today; even the new pope seems to be softening the catholic churches stance in the name of what society deems acceptable behavior
      Some things are just obviously wrong (society says we can’t say that) but other times
      It seems a difficult thing to decide what’s right and what’s not ..
      between being loving and just being judgmental because I think I’m right ,,
      I pray I’m never the latter,but also realize there will be times when I must stand for that which I believe is true…
      May God grant all that are His, discernment..
      Larry

      .

      Like

  9. John says:

    Below is a link to David Eells e-books. I’ve read “Sovereign God” and found it to be exactly what Bruce is talking about.

    READ THIS BOOK and HANG ON TO YOUR SEAT!!!

    http://www.ubp1.org/

    Like

    • Desmond says:

      John, you may wish to reconsider your stance on matt10:34
      In context jesus is speaking about family relationships being divided over his teaching. He is saying that his teaching is so polarizing that it is going to disrupt the peaceful easygoing traditional family patriarchal governance of religion and whole families will be broken because some will follow the radically freeing grace of the messiah, while others will remain in their traditional law based religion. The sword that Jesus references here is that thing that actually divides a family, his words.

      Like

      • Hi Clyde, John, Larry and Desmond,
        I’ve been very busy the last while and have not had much time to interact here on the blog.

        I’m not sure how the topic of pacifism vs. warfare got introduced but here’s a few thoughts…

        The Lord Jesus clearly said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight.” (The context is physical struggle/battle with physical weapons.)

        The apostle Paul clearly teaches that, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (fleshly) but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.” Then in Ephesians 6, he lists the weapons of the New Covenant child of God. None of offensive or defensive weapons in our “arsenal” are physical weapons at all! They are far more powerful than those!

        Larry, you commented on the idea that no soldier is ever instructed to change his occupation as a Christian. BUt have you ever considered the Lord Jesus’ instructions to the soldiers of his day? (“Do no violence to any man and be content with your wages.”) How long do you suppose a soldier “on active duty” would keep his job if he obeyed these orders from his Commander in Chief??? i.e. if he refused to do violence to any man (as an offensive action or as a defensive action???)

        You also mentioned defense of your family members or yourself if attacked…. Are you sure that New Covenant believers in the Lord Jesus have any right to self defense”??? Should believers who are arrested, attacked, abused by unbelievers defend themselves with physical force? Can such a position be reconciled with the Lord Jesus’ own teachings and example or that of the New Covenant apostles? How far are we to follow in his steps? Only until it gets physically dangerous?
        Personally, I don’t believe that I have any right to use physical force in self defense or even in defence of my wife or children!
        Does that make me a “pansy”, OR is such simply obedience to my Commander in Chief who clearly teaches me that vengeance is His and He will repay. But His instructions to me are that I am not to be overcome by evil but rather to overcome evil with good by turning the other cheek, feeding my enemy when he is hungry and giving him drink when he is thirsty!

        Like

      • Luc says:

        Bruce,
        It is a common misconception to say that jesus told soldiers to do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely, and be content with your wages.
        Jesus did say some of these kinds of things but you are quoting john the baptist.

        Like

      • Luc, You are absolutely right! Thanks for the correction and clarification! I appreciate it. Bruce

        Like

    • Larry says:

      John, I’d never heard of this man or his ministry before..so I went and looked at the site via the link provided..read the book titles and their intro.
      Disappointed would be an understatement,, I find this “stuff” downright scary,,not for myself but for those who may be led away from the simplicity that is in Christ.. Are you familiar with the term “new age”.
      Just be very careful my friend

      Like

      • John says:

        Hi Larry and thanks for your concern. I do appreciate that!

        Everywhere we look, there is new age teaching. All this false doctrine comes from the liar!

        From my experience, the only way we keep our crown, is in Christ. In Christ we have discernment of God. If we have asked, and believe we have been given, eyes and ears that are perceptive to the Holy spirit, we hear His voice and do not follow another.

        Jesus was accused by some, of doing His Fathers works by the power of devil.

        14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.

        15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

        16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.

        17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

        18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

        19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

        20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

        Consider John 10:

        24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

        25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.

        26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

        27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

        28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

        29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

        30 I and my Father are one.

        31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

        Again, all I can say is who do you say Jesus is? What do think of the teachings of David Eells?
        Nothing matters less than what man thinks. Nothing matters more than the Truth that is in Christ.

        Talk soon,
        John

        Like

  10. Desmond says:

    You are very kind to support David Eells when so many others are calling him a false prophet and unleavened bread ministries dangerous.

    Like

    • John says:

      Thanks for the sharpening Desmond. I guess I was just hoping to contrast the “status quo” jesus with the All Mighty King Jesus Christ of the Scripture.

      It might be best to just copy and paste the whole Bible:)

      There is this kind of peace, which is true and is of God, spoken of in the below verses:

      Mathew 5:9
      Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

      Isaiah 9:6
      For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

      Romans 12:18
      If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

      ……and everywhere else the Word talks about peace.

      http://biblez.com/search.php?q=peace

      And then there are verses like these below: Maybe a little meatier.

      34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

      35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

      36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

      37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

      or even false peace from anit-christs….

      1 Thessalonians 5:3

      For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

      The above verse kinda reminds me of the “fighting for freedom by taking freedom from others” idea. The world always has to have a ploy to get people to believe its lies.

      Re: David Eells ….I’m honestly lost for words….

      Al I can say is judge for yourselves. I gotta go to bat for this guy all day long. I love Christ in him, ….for taking the time to walk with me. Praise Jesus!

      http://www.ubm1.org/?page=sabs-onehour

      John 15

      18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

      19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

      20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

      I’m sure we’ve all familiar with the expression” If Jesus walked into your presence would you recognize Him and Love Him?”

      Thanks for the awesome discussion.
      I like this!
      Have a great night.
      Wife just made some apple crisp….Gotta go:)
      John

      Like

    • Hi John, Desmond and Larry,

      re David Eells… I’d never heard of him before so please help me out.

      First, John, what is that I teach that David Eells also teaches?

      John and Desmond, what would you say are david Eells’ primary teachings or those which he most emphasizes? Are those teachings clearly stated in the very words of scripture as all sound teachings are, OR must they be stated in words which man’s wisdom teaches and in words which are additional to the words of scripture?

      Larry, what teachings of his concerned you as you read his web site?

      Like

      • John says:

        Hey Bruce. David rightly divides the Word, as you do. If its in the Bible David teaches it.

        Davids primary teaching is that of the end times prophecy, manchild ministry, Christ in his people (2nd coming in his people), the Bride, coming out of the harlot.

        I’ve been listening to David for around 7 years or so. If there is any sound critique against David I would be honored to investigate personally. I love David just as Christ loves his whole Church.

        I just tried to some it up the best I could. I can expand on anything with scripture to the best of the understanding I have been given.

        Talk soon,
        John

        Like

      • Hi John,
        Thanks so much for your evaluation of David’s ministry. I’m curious again… what is “manchild ministry”? Can you give me a brief synopsis? Bruce

        Like

      • John says:

        Hi Bruce.

        The Man child was Jesus Christ then, and is Jesus Christ now! The world did not receive Him then and will not receive Him at his second coming, but His sheep will hear His voice and will not follow another. The Man Child, (Christ in His people), will be protected and nourished for 3 1/2 years at which time the ministry will begin and already has begun. You, Bruce, are in that Man Child body of Christ on the earth now! Praise God!!!

        Revelation 12:5
        And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

        All of the Revelation of God gives proper understanding of this verse of course, but just reading Revelation 12 is a good start.

        The Word means what it means. No agenda here but simply to encourage others to get excited to dig in to the Word of God:)

        2 Peter 1:20
        Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

        21
        For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

        Just a quick reply.
        John

        Like

  11. Larry says:

    OK Bruce, When the guy gets done beating and raping my daughter. I’ll be sure to ask him if he is thirsty or maybe needs a snack. I’m sure God will say “well done thou good and faithful servant”..

    Does this look as ridiculous to you as it does to me? or does it qualify as false teaching because I’m not quoting scripture.
    Kinda reminds me of those who teach communism based on Acts, where they had all things common.

    I don’t think God expects or would be pleased if I stood by and allowed any innocent (anyone too young to protect themselves,,or.. too young to decide for themselves whether or not to allow themselves, to be abused..Those are two different issues
    Does it follow then that we should not have an army? Are we really to allow the enemy in to rape and plunder.? Were the allies wrong to kill to stop Hitler ?
    Is this all the result of following false teaching ?

    I’m just gonna rest in the fact that I’m saved by what Christ did for me according to ! Cor 15 1-4 and be eternally grateful because it’s much more than I could ever deserve…
    and try, where possible, to preach the message of reconciliation 2 Cor.5:18,19.
    Peace & grace to all who trust “exclusively” on what He did for us..

    Like

    • John says:

      Hey Larry. John here.

      Just felt led to quickly reply to you. What I have experienced myself is that in the past, if my life or world view was challenged in any way by the Word of God, I would first get defensive but then on my own, privately look into those things which were challenging me.

      Check out 2 Timothy 3:16
      All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

      When my life does not line up with the Word, it was me that needed to be corrected.

      The Scripture that you know and are comfortable with is special to you. Keep it forever! It is written on your heart. When I first read the Bible, I highlighted certain verses that blew me away. Its like the words jumped off the pages and knocked me over.

      We must continue on to the deep things of the Word, that is if we desire to grow in Christ, to become what God desires for us. This will not be forced upon you, but I pray for you to be given hunger and thirst that will be filled and quenched by the Holy Spirit of God.

      Jeremiah 29:13
      And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

      2 Peter 3:16
      As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

      Acts 17:11
      These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

      1 Corinthian 3:2
      I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

      2 Timothy 2:15
      Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      Psalms 119:160
      Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

      Isaiah 40:8
      The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

      Malachi 3:6
      For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

      I know that God can keep you and your family no matter what may come your way.
      Do you believe that?

      Love you man,
      John

      Like

      • Owen says:

        Hey john
        What are the historical, cultural, and scriptural contexts of those verses that you just used?

        Like

      • John says:

        Hi Owen.

        The answers to your position may be best searched out by you.

        Proverbs 25:2
        It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

        The full historical, cultural, and scriptural contexts of those verses that I quoted can be found in the Word of God as recorded in The Scriptures and written on the heart of His children.

        Dig in:)

        Look forward to gleaning from anything you may discover.

        Thanks for the Post Owen.
        John

        Like

    • Desmond says:

      Larry, why wait until he is done? You could be a lot more hospitable before he started don’t you think?
      You seem to think that there are only two choices. Kill, or do nothing.
      Let me assure you that this is a lie. When you use language like “sit back and allow”, or “stand by and do nothing” you are using the language of victimization. And to only see a binary choice here is to buy into that lie.
      Why not place yourself between the victim and the rapist? Why not place yourself in the path of any injustice and stand up to it willing to follow your convictions to your death?
      Why would you ever respond in anger when you are called to respond in love? Would a rapist have a hard time raping your daughter if you were standing in front of her? Would a murderer have a hard time killing your wife if you were standing in front of her? Would two teenagers fighting in a park have a hard time fighting if you walked between them?
      What would it look like if you always ran toward trouble instead of standing by and doing nothing? What would you lose if you didn’t fight back, but continued to stand up in front of the abused? Your life? Is that all? Sounds like…Jesus.

      It is always okay to die for your faith but it is never okay to kill for your faith.

      Like

      • Vernon says:

        Larry seems to equate pacifism with passivity.
        Paciify means to bring peace, not to hide.
        A true pacifist brings peace as an ends using peace as a means.

        If every christian was a pacifist then Hitler would have been stopped before he got started since 90% of his wehrmacht professed to be Christians.

        And since you ask if we shouldn’t have an army, when have christians ever had an army? What borders do christians have to defend? Who are you giving your allegience to before Jesus?

        Like

      • Excellent post Vernon! YOur questions get right down to the heart of the subject! Thanks! Bruce

        Like

      • Clyde says:

        This is all just hippie dippie hogwash!
        We all know that God is a god of vengeance and justice! Even jesus whipped the money changers out of he house of God!
        Time and again God has ordered the complete annihilation of the ungodly! And when he returns he will lead the battle against the nations at armageddon!
        God knows who is wicked and who is just! When the wicked are killed it is at his behest! He knows the number of the hairs on your head, and He certainly knows the future for each of us and that includes how and when we will die! God has prepared the wicked for destruction and the righteous are his tools for that end! If God should give me that responsibility then so be it! My conscience is clear!

        Like

      • John says:

        I can understand how you feel, I have felt the same way, but to take it in to your own hands to carry out the justice of God on others will only bring just punishment of God on yourself. If we want people to get what they deserve so will you,….get what you deserve. if we want Grace we must give Grace.

        All is I can say is yikes man…….get in the Word.
        Hope I don’t sound to “this is way it is”, just being as honest as I can with you brother.
        John

        Like

      • Desmond,
        I could not have answered better myself! I like your last line best…”It is always OK to die for your faith but it is never OK to kill for your faith.” Excellent! Neither the Lord Jesus nor the apostles ever responded to physical violence directed at them with the same kind of response! Nor should persecuted believers or any one of us, whose physical well-being or life is threatened with violence today, respond with violence in kind! This is a tough message to teach and tougher still to live. But Christ has called His people to radical obedience! Bruce

        Like

    • Hi Larry,
      I see some of the other brothers have already done an excellent job of responding to your perceived idea of pacifism. Just briefly here, I would say the Biblical teaching is not that we “stand by” but rather “stand in between” as the Lord Jesus did for us. Possibly more to follow. Bruce

      Like

  12. Larry says:

    John, Desmond & Vernon. I appreciate all your responses. Your probably being more gracious than I deserve..I will go over these again more carefully.

    In the meantime I will endeavor to do what I believe is more important to God, that is preach the gospel as found in Rms. 10: 9-10 & ! Cor.15:1-4 and the message of reconciliation 11Cor.5 :18-19

    and so; I have determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified 1 Cor.2:2

    thanks everyone Larry

    Like

    • Luc says:

      Are you sure that preaching is the most important thing?
      1 Corinthians 13 disagrees.

      Like

    • Larry, YOu posed some good questions and the responses you have received, I hope will give you sound reasons to change your view and your practical responses if you are ever confronted by violence. Preaching Christ crucified must of necessity include living a crucified life! Following the Lord Jesus in the same sorts of responses to violence which lead to His own crucifixion. Bruce

      Like

  13. Paul F says:

    Hi Larry,

    Scriptural references: Mathew 5:9, James 5:16, Luke 10:38-41,Ezekiel 22:30, Mathew 7:22,23, Job, John 10:10, John 10:27-30

    You bring up some very good points and ask questions that have been debated for centuries. We have to always remember we live in a corrupted world, where God uses what is available to serve his purposes. Again, I’d suggest reading ‘Reese Howell, Intercessor’ to see how prayers given, when in union with the spoken guidance of the Holy Spirit, ‘availeth much’. God will and does intervene with nature and people to change the course of action. God does use our resources to eradicate evil or further His cause, as He sees fit. In other words we don’t make war in the name of Jesus, but as Christians we are involved in war, in many different ways.

    If our Theology refuses to accept or understand the revelatory gifts of the Holy Spirit, then it is much more difficult for us to understand the interaction of God and man on world events and in our personal lives.

    I’ve seen personally the prayers given by a brother, as directed by the Holy Spirit, which brought down the Soviet Union, including the raising up of Lech Walensa, who became the initial lynch pin.

    His prayers also included the opening up of doors which allowed for the first time in history, the Gospel to be preached in such places as Madagascar and Upper India.

    So, in world events, God is in action as He wills, and some brother or sister is sitting in some closet somewhere, agreeing with the Holy Spirit, and letting events unfold.

    In Mathew 5:9, Jesus says ‘blessed is the peacemaker’ and although His application is deeper, the words used suggest an action of making, promoting and encouraging peace. Each person will have to seek God as to how that applies to themselves.

    My son spent most of 2010 in Afghanistan with the Canadian Forces and was under rocket fire 120 times. His position is as a tradesman, but is taught to kill, if needed, for his or others safety. He is neither a greater or lesser Christian because he is with the CF, but he sees that particular cause as one of bringing freedom to a supressed people. God has never said or indicated he was or wasn’t called to that job in life, but the Lord did give assurance, by way of a dream, to my wife, that he would be safe where his posting took him.

    We are always covered by grace while we are walking out our lives, and as we grow in the Lord He can teach us more specifically as to what He would have us do or how to handle situations. We will get hurt, we will make mistakes, we will at times have to suffer great pain and sorrow. We live trusting Him that all things serve His purposes.

    I know a girl who was gang banged by Satanist when she was 18 and became pregnant. Brothers who hear the Lord’s voice very clear inquired of Him as to what to do. He said she is to have the child and ‘he will be my Joshua’. The boy is now about 20, and since an early age knows the Lord’s voice very well.

    If we learn to hear, we are drawn closer to the Lord, and He to us. If we choose to hold Him away, or as I said earlier, our Theology doesn’t allow or encourage such things, our interaction with God is limited.

    Personal and family protection follows the same lines. He will tell us what to pray and when, to protect us. It won’t eliminate pain in our lives, but He will help us to understand it and get through it.

    A couple more quick points – I saw my brother bend over backwards half way to the ground once, something humanly impossible to do. A guy took a swing at him while Jim was speaking to him and he literally bent over backwards so the punch caught nothing but air, and the funny thing is Jim didn’t miss a word of what he was saying.

    Second – In 2006 I was driving west of Moosejaw on the TransCanada highway when the Lord very clearly and in a commanding way said ‘release safety now!’ This while I was passing an oilfield service rig truck. So I did, only to then see as I passed the truck he blew a tire and started to swerve, but regained control, instead of squishing the small car beside him.
    My son was driving the small car.

    I’m willing to share with you or anyone the dozens or 100s of incidents of interaction with the Lord I’ve been fortunate enough to experience. It has nothing to do with ‘me’, but everything to do with ‘Him’. This is what the real meaning of John 10:10 is all about. It is all about more of Him in our lives in a very real way, as we both allow Him to, and we seek His face.

    Luke 10:38-41. Many Christian things we feel an obligation to do or believe a doctrine teaches us to do actually hinder what the Lord wants to do. His primary desire truly is, that we would just sit with Him and draw close to Him. He knows what has to be done, and He’ll let us know what He would have us do. Mathew 7:22, 23. John 10:27-30

    Apologies to Bruce if I’ve been a bit off topic.

    Paul

    Like

  14. Desmond says:

    John,
    I agree with Owen.
    Any text without a context is a sure sign that you are being conned.
    We have a duty to supply an understanding of context each time we quote a verse. To just rip a bunch of verses out of their contexts and patch them together in a new order is great way to make the bible say whatever you want, but it is dishonest to the text and to those who you are teaching.

    Prooftexting is a sure sign of an agenda.

    Like

  15. Clyde says:

    I think that you are all forgetting that God is the one who blinds the minds of evil men.
    If God is against them, then who can be for them? Who am I to stand in the way of the Almighty God?
    When God sets evil men aside for destruction they will be destroyed.
    Those who are Gods servants are the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil

    Like

  16. Hi Clyde,
    You seem to be forgetting or ignoring the clear scriptural instructions to New Covenant believers in Romans 12:17-21…
    17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

    18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

    20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

    21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    This is God’s instructions to you and me re our response to wicked men. What scriptural instruction can you show which would justify the response you seem to justify?

    Remember the standard you have agreed to is what does scripture say plus or minus nothing.
    Bruce

    Like

  17. Clyde says:

    According to the pure words of scripture we can clearly see Gods view on this subject.

    2 Corinthians 4
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Romans 8
    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    1 Samuel 15
    18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
    19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?

    Romans 13
    2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

    Matthew 21
    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

    Proverbs 29
    2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

    Malachi 3
    6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
    These are clear instructions from God. His wrath and judgement are real. Shall we follow the teaching of scripture or the liberal interpretations of men?

    Like

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